One-on-One With Los Angeles County District Attorney Jackie Lacey
Lacey graduated from Dorsey High School in Los Angeles and received her
bachelor's degree in Psychology at UC Irvine. She received her J.D. from
USC in 1982. She joined the District Attorney's office in 1986. After
working as a prosecutor for more than ten years, and working in
administration for more than ten years, on March 12, 2011 she was
appointed to chief deputy, the number two person in the DA's office and
was elected District Attorney in December, 2012. She is a member of LA 5
Rotary Club. I met her in her office on the 18th floor of the
District Attorneyís office in the
Clara Shortridge Foltz
Criminal Justice Center on Temple
Street in Los Angeles.
just returned from a major drug bust that was initiated by her office
and I asked her about it.
Jackie: Our office got involved with a major narcotics
investigation that captured 24 kilos of cocaine along with a bunch of
cash and shut down a major drug dealer.
How does that work procedurally? How does the DAs office get
involved in that? Is this normally a police matter?
Jackie: Right. We get tips. The state Bureau of narcotics has been
shut down due to budget cuts. There are a lot of informants out there
who have information but who no longer have a Bureau of Narcotics
enforcement to turn to. So our folks are trained and they got a tip. We
got the information and acted upon it and seized an incredible amount of
cocaine and are very excited about it.
Tony: Is there anything in the office of being The
District Attorney that has surprised you even though youíve been in
administration for many years?
Jackie: What surprises me about the job the most is the demand.
This is a 24 hour a day seven days a week job. Youíre constantly reading
the papers and getting information, making decisions, evaluating, and
reevaluating, having conversations about this office, or how to run an
office this size literarily maybe 90% of the time, if not doing
something about it then thinking about it.
Tony: What kind of decisions do you have to make as
Jackie: I make decisions about our responses to correspondence.
Let me give you an example. Right now Iím dealing with realignment (a
law that shifted the responsibility for some categories of state
prisoners from the state to the counties).
We need a definition of recidivism. We have to figure out whether a
shift of prisoners to the County level is working, whether the crime
rates are going up or down, whatever. I spend a lot of time thinking and
meeting with people talking about how can we capture the data and how
will we define recidivism. Before realignment, Tony, CDCR (California
Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation)
always put out these recidivism reports and they defined Californiaís
recidivism rate at 60%, which was really high compared nationally. They
defined it as you recidivate when you return to state custody for any
reason, for parole violation or a new case. Now that there is a certain
category of crime, criminals that canít return to state prison, can only
return to county jail, how do you define it? We have to come up with a
definition as close to what we had before to in order determine whether
crime is going up.
Iím advocating that we include what is called ďflash incarceration,Ē
which occurs when you are being monitored by a probation officer and
your probation officer says, ďYou tested dirty; you didnít show up for
this so Iím going to put you in custody for 1 to 10 days, depending on
what your violation is.Ē I believe that ought to be counted towards the
recidivism rate. Probation disagrees.
Tony: Who makes the final decision?
Jackie: I think what youíre going to see is more than one report
Tony: Letís move on to something else. Now Iím going to
ask you a question Iím sure nobody has ever asked you. Civil litigation
is really awful. People file verified complaints, where they swear to
the allegations set forth in their complaints under penalty of perjury.
They lie all the time. Does your office ever prosecute that?
Jackie: It depends. We have a standard of proof with regard to
perjury. You have to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
Under the cloak of civil litigation all kinds of things can be said.
There are all kinds of privileges. So, in general, we donít use our
resources to prosecute people who file civil cases just because the
opposing party says they are lying. Thatís always going to be the
answer, right? Thatís why you are in civil litigation.
Tony: What if it is black and white? What if it is clear
that somebody lied?
Jackie: If the proper case were brought to our office; if
witnesses were there, we would, and we have prosecuted perjury in the
Tony: What do you mean by a proper case?
Jackie: Thereís got to be witnesses. Itís got to be a dead bang
provable lie. Weíve got limited resources so we have to prioritize when
we decide to prosecute.
Tony: What do you like better, litigating or
Jackie: I love administrating, I really do. The opportunity to set
policy, to motivate, to inspire, to leave a legacy here is wonderful. I
loved litigating. The last case I litigated was a hate crime murder
case. I loved the fact that I was representing the people of the State
of California and really had hit my stride. I feel that that same sort
of opportunity is presenting itself right now but on a much grander
Tony: Iím not asking you to criticize Steve Cooley, whom
we both greatly admire, but what do you feel needs to be done that
hasnít been done?
People probably get tired of hearing me say this, but I never get
tired of saying it. Steve Cooley left this office in great shape. He
personally mentored me for 12 years. The way I have always seen my role
is to want to protect his legacy and to protect this office and to build
upon what he has already done. The challenges for Steve were different
than what they are for me. Steve did not really have the challenge of
figuring out, now that realignment is here, how to make it work. He did
not have court closures and I do. He started with high-tech crime and
cybercrime. Cybercrime is getting worse nationally so I think I have to
be much more aggressive. So I have steadfastly maintained that the
office is in incredibly good shape so thereís nowhere to go right now
Tony: Do you read much? If so, what?
Jackie: Right now Iím reading a book, "A
Bright and Guilty Place: Murder, Corruption, and L. A.ís Scandalous
Coming of Age" by Richard Traynor,
and I only get 10 pages a month. Itís about the history of the justice
system here in the DAs office. If I have time to read, Tony. Iím reading
recidivism reports, probation reports, how theyíre doing with
realignment. I love to read, but I feel guilty if I have the time to
read if Iím not reading work related stuff.
Tony: Isnít there a danger of burnout?
Jackie: Sure. Absolutely. Iím working on that (laughs).
Tony: What authors did you like when you did read?
Jackie: I love Dean Koontz. I love reading Nora Roberts romance
novels because they are such escapism. Iím reading a book now on my iPad
called Lean In by
about how women advance through corporate structure.
Tony: What movies do you like?
Jackie: I just saw a movie that I really liked called Silver
Linings Playbook. I love that movie. It was my kind of movie, a love
story plus a socially conscious movie about mental illness and the
family structure. Iím probably about four or five years behind in terms
of modern culture on television, but I just discovered Mad Men. I
just finished season one. Theyíre probably at season five, I think, now.
I love that show. Itís an interesting study in human nature and what we
were really like as a country back in the 50s.
Tony: Has anything happened here in this job that you had
Jackie: No. Not really. I put together my leadership team, which I
think is crucial. You have to have people whom you trust, whom you
believe in, who are competent to do the job. We have some people who
worked for Steve Cooley in his administration, but there are also a lot
of fresh ideas here and new people in leadership. I think that at least
50% of accomplishing goals is putting the right people in jobs.
What are your goals?
Jackie: I have five basic goals:
accurate information on realignment;
Expanded the use of alternate sentencing courts because they save bed
space and money and they are better places to put these people;
Expanded environmental crimes;
my seniors about financial scams;
something about the cyber criminals.
Tony: Youíre a double pioneer. Jackie Robinson just broke
the color line in baseball but you are both the first woman and the
first African American District Attorney.
Iím aware of the fact that Iím the 42nd District
Attorney and Jackie Robinsonís number was 42. I need a Jersey. Where can
I get a jersey? (laughs).
Tony: Do you feel any pressure being the first woman and
the first African-American to hold the office of Los Angeles County
Jackie: Absolutely. I want to do well. I donít want people
to say, ďShe was the first woman but was she a good District Attorney?Ē
Itís much more important to me to remember me as leaving this office in
a much better shape and accomplishing things. Yes, there is a lot of
pressure. If I do a good job people wonít hesitate about electing
another African-American or another qualified woman.
Tony: Have you felt any resentment against you?
I donít. Our office is more than 50% women. Itís very diverse.
Itís almost been six months and Iíve really been made to feel very
welcome here. There isnít a week that doesnít go by where someone
doesnít say, ďIím really so happy to have you as the District Attorney.Ē